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The Scientific Basis of Orgonomy (script)

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The Scientific Basis of Orgonomy (script)

The following is Dr. Victor Sobey’s lecture in October of1993, which was arranged by the Institute for the Study of the Work of Wilhelm Reich. In this lecture, Dr. Sobey talked about the scientific basis of orgonomy.  The seminar was moderated by Dr. Harry Lewis and Mr. David Silver  recorded  the lecture.  We thank both Dr. Lewis and  Mr. Silver for making this lecture possible and  available.  The edited version of the video has been posted in this journal, and the reader can see it by clicking here.

Dr. Victor Sobe was a long time student of Dr. Reich and he stayed loyal to him up to the end.  He treated many patients and trained clinicians and orgonomists  throughout  his carier as a psychiatrist and orgonomist.

The following is a transcription of the edited version of the video for those who would like to read it.

Dr. Sobey:  I’m recommending that if you really want to get a good idea and synopsis of Wilhelm Reich’s work, look at The Selected Writings and Introduction to Orgonomy, published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux.  That’s the way one should really approach this.  I remember around 1951 or so, there was a lot of talk about orgonomy in periodical newspapers, so the American Psychiatric Association obviously got a lot of inquiries as to an explanation for orgonomy.  Instead of appointing one or two of us to be on the board to answer the letters of inquiries, they wrote a lot of form letters to each of the orgonomists, at that time about 25 or 30 of us, and saying please put in your own words explaining orgonomy.  So when we had our regular seminar with Dr. Reich, we all brought this to his attention, and he said, what do they want to know?  My books are out there.  And none of us could describe it as well as his writing, so he had us write the form letter back saying to refer them to the books, and to appoint one or two of us to answer the inquiries, which of course we never heard from them.  So that’s why I really recommend to read the book.  I am picking out the highlights of what he thought was the most important part of his work and discovery.  He used to say that he only discovered one thing, and that was the orgonotic pulsation.  The orgonotic pulsation was only a pulsation energy, an energy which is before mass, and in difference to Einstein who exploded mass into energy which is dangerous.  Whereas orgone energy is not dangerous. He said, from there on there’s only a skeleton building and the rest has to be filled in.   He said, by the time he went to jail, he filled in very little of it, so the whole world was left open.

I met Dr. Reich in December, 1947.  I was in my psychiatric residency at the veterans administration and one of the new residence came in and he had all of Dr. Reich’s books and was raving about the works, and we were all doctors and psychiatric residence after WWII.  We had been exposed to all the prominent schools of psychiatry at the time and we were all really quiet impressed.  One of the lectures we had was from NY psychoanalyst Dr. Shillianski, he was one of the top guys.   We weren’t really happy with it, he was a very stiff guy very dogmatic, and we asked him if he knew Wilhelm Reich and his work. Well you’d think we’d introduced the devil into that lecture room. He said, I don’t want to hear that name any more, and if you’re gonna discuss it I’m not going to come.  So we continued to discussing it among ourselves, and one by one we went up to see Dr. Reich.  I went over by myself, and before I went, by that time I had read all his material, I expected to see a giant, the man was very imposing, and if you look at the pictures, you see he looked like me.  I looked at him and thought, how could he be any good if he looks like me!  But it didn’t take me very long to get back to my fantasy I built up about him because he really was something different, he was out there, his energy field was out there, he was kind and sympathetic but at the same time he was quiet definite in what he wanted.  So I like to bring in some of the personal things about him, which I don’t know is known or not, to give you an idea of how kind he was, even though he was attacked viscously by people. For example, at one time, that must have been around 1950 or so, there was a complaint brought against him from Hillside psychiatric hospital. At that time Hillside hospital was the psychoanalytic establishment in the United States.  A rumor came out that Dr. Reich had gotten an older women out of the hospital who was very ill and brought her over to his office and laboratory in Forest Hills and examined her, and was accused that he put her behind an X-ray machine, which he didn’t have, and masturbated.  Well, that was a pretty serious accusation. At the time there was a psychiatric resident at the Hillside Hospital, Dr. Singer, who had by himself gotten interested in Dr. Reich’s work and he heard about the rumor and he knew the woman. In fact she was a patient of his, and he was flabbergasted. The woman had never left the hospital, and when he asked her, she said that she never left the hospital.  Well, Singer came to Dr. Reich and told him the whole story and signed an affidavit to that effect, and we brought it to our lawyer, Earnest, the number one civil rights lawyer at the time.  And he looked at the stuff and said you have a very good case.  So we all met and Dr. Reich said, “Oh, so our lawyer contacted the head of the hospital and said our client got a case against you”, and he said “I know, I should have had my head examined but I went along with it”. So when we had our meeting, we discussed it and Dr Reich said “Can I see a show of hands, should we go ahead with it”, and we all raised our hands and thought, let’s go to battle.  He looks at us and said , “no, I cant do it, if we do this, Miller is ruined, the others are ruined”…that was the kind of man he was.

Another plague we had when the government served Dr. Reich with selling fraudulent material and writing fraudulent books about a fraudulent device, the accumulator.  Mr. Green was the lawyer in Jersey and he was a republican and he new the top republican officials, in fact he was a lawyer for the pharmaceutical companies in New Jersey.  And one time, they had a national convention of  The American Association of Pharmaceutical houses, and Mr. Green was also involved. His daughter had gone into treatment and improved quite a bit with one of the orgonomists after she had been in treatment with many other psychiatrist and didn’t get much help from them. So he was quite impressed.  So the president of the american pharmaceutical industry was there, and Mr. Green went up to him and said, “I heard a lot of things about this orgonomy and Dr. Reich”.   He said, “don’t worry about it, it’s nothing”.  And he looked at me and said “but you know, if that was for real, we wouldn’t want it anyhow, we’d do everything to kill it”  So that’s what we had to content with.

Much of this is not known and it’s so interesting to me.  I remember the second international orgonomic conference up at the Orgonon.  That was after the Alice Brady article.  She was hired by the American Psychiatric Association to write a rather contemptuous article about Dr. Reich and it was copied by all the psychiatric magazines.  At that time we had Dr. S, he was a resident there also and he became very interested in orgonomy.  He heard the top brass manager himself talking about Reich and saying “this guy has something, but he’s going to make us go back to school and study this”.  They were all buying character analysis but they wouldn’t show it to anybody.  So anyhow, Dr. Reich at that time said that the plague is going to grow and it’s  going to come to the point that I feel I could be sent to jail, but I’m not going to leave it, if any of you want to leave that’s okay with me.  And you know that was the beginning of the whole campaign.

Here’s a picture of Dr. Reich, afternoon and evening sessions.  Here we have an evening session, this is the lab.

Dr. Reich, came upon the concept of orgone energy way after Freud had the theory of LIbido and libidinal energy.  At that point it was subjective of concept, it was never objectified, which Dr. Reich later did.

He brought in a hodgepodge, a witches brew of organic material and then diligently looked at the detritus or broken down material, and saw little blobs which he called vegetative bions, then he got he idea to look at inorganic material, like sand, which he felt would be very rich in energy. He heated that up to incandescence and then cooled it and looked under the microscope and saw very well defined bions, little  vesicles, blue in color, and he decided to see what effect they would have on the body.  So he made little packets of it and put it on different parts of the body, and it would give it a redness and then tan, then he used it over wounds and cuts and they healed very fast.  He called those SAPA bions. Then he worked with an electroscope, to measure the electricity in the air. You charge it up with any kind of electrical instrument and the leaves separate, and as they discharge the leaves come back to the original position. So he decided to charge the electroscope with the back light, which he felt will give it charge, but then did it at different times of the day, in the morning and cloudy days it would discharge much faster, but in the middle of the day, he found it would discharge much slower.  He corroborated that with what he called T0 – T2,  temperatures, he had a fine thermometer and he put one over accumulating substance and one over non accumulating, and the T0 over the accumulating substance would almost always show a higher temperature than  the thermometer that was over plain material.

Question from audience: How did he see the blue aura, was it in the microscope?

Dr. Sobey:  Up in Orgonon we had an accumulating room, 10 by 10, which  the walls were made out of the accumulating substance, organic, inorganic, organic, inorganic.  It was pitch black, when you sat in it you saw nothing, and after 10 minutes when ones eyes became fixed on the atmosphere, you suddenly saw blue all around your body, and you could walk around and see someone’s arm and shake hands with them, then there would be clouds in there. The longer you stayed, they would be floating around, when you took an electroscope in the room, it never discharged, and thats where we saw the blue.

He took a vacuum tube and put it in the accumulator room and after a few days, he took it out and sent in the smallest charge of amperage electricity he could do, and the whole tube just glowed blue.  When you mention it to physicists, they said you just can’t do it.  There’s a picture of it, a very beautiful picture, and it still glow.  In the blood you get a very good view of orgone energy.  So one of the three big things that Dr. Reich said were the best things he did for mankind was the Reich blood test.  At one time I used to give all my patients the Reich blood test. But it’s a tedious procedure so I discontinued.

Now with the Reich blood test, we take a prick of blood and put it under the microscope, and we look at the blood and you see in the picture, it is like a donut, and you see inside the donut is the nucleus which is yellowish and the frame inside the donut is a deeper yellow, and outside you actually see a blueish field radiating. Then  you look at the size and shape of the blood cells, the frame and it’s evenness, regularity, the orgone energy field outside, it’s so spectacular, and the center is large small round, colors pink or reddish to violet.  Then the cell breaks down. Now the break down is a good determination of how rich, how much, what the energy concentration in the body is, the higher the energy concentration is, the slower the red blood cells break down.  And they disintegrate very slowly, but if the blood energy level is high in the body and the blood, the frame doesn’t break down, the glow on the outside doesn’t break down,  and in the frame you see these little, they’re called large blue bions, they form in that part, and I’ve seen cases of about 10 or 12, and they look just like a pearl necklace, it’s beautiful. We call those PA or B reaction. If you get 4 or less bions,  then that’s a T reaction, if you get 5 or more, that’s a B reaction and it stays that way as long as you keep putting in saline solution.   If the energy level is low in the body, you don’t get those bions you see, T spike cells. You don’t get those bodies, you don’t get those PA bions, you get on the periphery spiking, you can’t miss it, and the thing is of course with cancer patients, you get this almost with everyone. So it was always a good test for any one who had cancer or tended towards cancer. Then we would test it for people on different medications.  In 1950 they were still giving people sulfa drugs  and even in classical medicine, they knew that Sulfa drugs had deleterious side effects, but with the way we observed it, it formed a solid mass then. Now how do we counteract the T spike, the T reaction?  We used to put those patients in the accumulator and take a blood test, once a month every 3 or 4 months, and almost invariably, the T spike phenomenon would not occur, and you’d get the PA or B reaction. We had a lot of cancer mice that we got from the laboratory in Maine, used to grow cancer mice strains, maybe 500 generations, pure cancer mice. We would put the cancer mice in the smaller accumulators, and you see the healthy mouses blood and the cancer mouses blood.  And also the white blood corpuscles, they were always slightly larger, the lymphocytes slightly were brightly luminous and very resistant to disintegration. They are  easily distinguished after settling has been completed with the fine adjustor of the microscope, and that would show that the energy level was low, leukocytosis and leaning towards leukemia, which about 70% of the time reverse itself after being in the accumulator.

And it took a lot of experience and looking at a lot of blood to be able to really tell, because it was up to the observer, and the more you were in contact with your own body the better you could distinguish  B reaction from T reaction.

The estimation of the criteria for healthy or sick blood requires much experience. Many samples of blood from different sources must first be examined and compared with each other. It means long and patient hours at the microscope. For the acquiring at this scale it is important that the same microscope, same magnification, the same centering of the light and the same intensity of the light source be used by the observer. One should not loose sight of the fact that the examination of the blood cells and tissues outside the living organism brings about a rapid modification of these cells. In order to gain the close examination to the true physiological appearance of the cells, the blood must be examined immediately.  I’m getting very technical, and I don’t know how not to do it, I’m used to giving this explanation to doctors, but I’ll continue. The appearance of bions, with the frame of the red blood cells is due to the fact that the even distribution of the orgone energy has been modified.  There is a gradual loss of orgone energy so there is not enough to maintain a tautness characteristic of a healthy cell.   Now that’s an important statement.  Now  Dr. Reich felt, the cause of cancer was  lower  orgone energy in the body, the body cells, and that classically  was felt that cells proliferate into more cells than the organism could accommodate, and as a result, the normal chemistry and physiology would be deleterious to the body.  We see in the breakdown of the red cells, you get the T spike cells, and when you allow the normal cell to breakdown, the energy will dissipate, and you keep it alive, it breaks  down into an amoeba and that’s what Dr. Reich said  cancer was, the break down of the cell, the lowering of the energy of the cell into a newer form and newer type of cell.

Disintegration of both the healthy and sick cells, the process is the same but the bionic disintegration of the healthy cells begins at a much higher level of energy.  In both instances, shrinking occurs but in the case of the weaker blood the power of expansion necessary to keep the membranes stretched is reduced.  In other words the tautness, the life of the weaker cell is not as great as that of the stronger.  From the observation, a logical deduction can be made as to the original energy content of the cell, and you see that the weaker cell goes into spiking, and you know the energy content of the cell was not very high

There are two different variations of disintegration. The healthy and the sick are referred to as B or beta reaction or PA reaction, which is healthy.   The second is T shrinking or sick reaction, and in diseases such as cancer where the biological debility is extreme, the disintegration of the cell is almost a 100% in the T reaction.  The cell which disintegrates in the PA or B manner has a greater amount of orgone energy from which the bions are formed.  As a consequence, these bions are larger and deeper blue and more sharply delineated in the cells which disintegrate in the T manner, due to the lower energy content, only small bions or T spikes will be formed.  The T type of disintegration while almost always found in cancer, may be found in other biopathic conditions, diseases arising from a disturbance in bioenergetic pulsation. We never went into other diseases, we never had that many cases available.  We tried to get permission at hospitals, but they just said a lot of nonsense.

So that work all has to be done, little by little. I don’t know if anyone is doing the blood tests. I think almost nobody is doing them now.   It takes a lot of time and money.

Dr.Harry Lewis: You did work with TB patients?

Dr.Sobey: I did work with 3 tuberculosis patients, there was one woman, she was away in the navy and she developed tuberculosis, and it was pretty fulminating, and at that time, they did treat her, they had a couple of streptomycin and a couple of other drugs. She wasn’t getting anywhere, and they were recommending that they do a lobectomy with her lungs.  Her husband had been in treatment with me and asked me what the accumulator would do. I was young and daring, and I said, bring her around and let’s see.  I had her on the couch and would have her siting in the accumulator 3-4 times a day.  In the meantime, I said I better get some protection. I knew a doctor at Seaview Tuberculosis Hospital.  I asked him if he would follow the case and if he thought at any time that she was getting worse then he would recommend that she get the operation. After a couple of weeks she started feeling a lot better, and I sent her to him and he examined her, and he took x-rays and said she still has them but it’s much better, took a couple of x-rays, and he continued to follow her for 3 months and after 3 months said she was in remission.

And then she went on, she got married, she had girls, and I see the mother down in Florida and this was 40 years ago, and still no reoccurrence, the daughters are fine, never had anything, the husband is  fine and I had several others, not as serious as she was.  They responded quite well.  They never needed any medication any more, and Dr. Reich wanted me to give a report.   I went up there and gave the whole history, he looked at me and he said, I would never have done that. So, I said what do you think, he said, you’re the specialist not me. That was in the young days. Then of course the government came and soon after that, like all the orgonomists I stopped using the accumulator in the office and stopped prescribing to the patients, the only one that still did it was Dr. S.  But I still kept the accumulator in my office and I did prescribe it to patients, but after Dr. Reich developed the accumulator blanket, which he felt was better, and I liked better too.  Anyhow, the other doctors, after Dr. Reich died, Dr. Baker decided to leave the group and he had 3 or 4 younger doctors.

They did more to destroy the accumulator than the FDA because they said that the DOR emergency had gotten so bad, DOR does change orgone energy to more DOR.  They said it was so bad, especially in NYC, that the accumulator was useless. That helped the FDA and no one was going to use it because it was [claimed] very dangerous.

Question from audience: Is there any truth to that?

Dr. Sobey:  No, that’s ridiculous, I have all my patients that still have their accumulator blankets and they never developed  DOR reaction.

Question from audience: What would that look like?

Dr. Sobey:  The DOR reaction is a generalized reaction that somewhat simulates a really bad cold and also whatever weak spot the patient has, the DOR would exacerbate it, liver lungs or whatever else.

Dr.Harry Lewis: These comments by Baker had no clinical support and there was no research to support their claims.

Dr. Sobey:  Around August 1954, the blueberry farmers in Maine, which was a big industry there, were having a terrible drought, and it reached the point that if they didn’t get rain in 2-3 days, the crop would be ruined.  Dr Reich had been working on producing rain around the Organon which he’d done quite a few times.   So he contacted the blueberry farmers to see if he could help them with their problem.  So they looked at them, by the way, they had seeding done before that and it didn’t work.  And the forecast on WBZ from Boston showed no rain for at least another 3-4 days, so the blueberry farmers said, okay, you can come over and do your cloud buster, he said, I’ll do it but I want some money before hand. They were desperate.  He asked for 600 dollars, so he went there, notified the weather bureau in Boston and television stations, he did it all out in the open, he wanted them to know and didn’t want to hide, he drew for 2-3 hours, in a way that only he could do, you just don’t take the cloud buster and point it in the sky like a lot of people thought you could do. You had to have the structure and the feel of the atmosphere, it’s all public knowledge.  Well, it rained like hell, and the blueberry crop was saved.

I can go on further. Around January 1953, he had been in the dessert around Tucson with the idea of studying the DOR in the dessert. The DOR  has an affinity for water and moisture.  They really had a drought there for a couple of years and the cattle farmers were suffering with the idea that they would have to move away. So he went down and studied the atmosphere there for a while and then he started the cloud buster.  By that time, there wasn’t cloud busting, he called it “space gun”. Anyhow,  the air force had a base there, he would notify them all the time what he was doing, and would notify everyone, the weather bureau took his information.  Well,  by December it started to rain and I, Edgar Rayfield, and Baker on January 15th, went to see what he was doing out in the dessert with him, in the morning you could see the DOR, we call it a haze.  It was every morning, and he would use the cloud buster/space gun to clear up the atmosphere in different ways, and every time he did it you couldn’t see the DOR haze in the dessert, and you would get rain. You’d do it in the morning, and for lunch there was a place where all the cowboys and ranchers would go, they would say.   “Hi Dr. Reich, you going to make rain for us?”

The night before we left, he said I’m going to make some rain for you, and it wont be dessert rain, where it comes down and floods, so he started during the day, his assistant Ruiz was doing it for him at that time.  We were watching it, Ruiz came in, he said it’s starting to rain, we went out, and very nice  soft rain, it kept raining and raining.  We left about 11 o’clock.   I got up in the morning, I had a car and went to the airport, and it’s raining and I said to the woman at the ticket office, “Is the plane going to land?”  She said “we’ve never had an occasion where we couldn’t take off or a plane land”.  I said okay, I have a wedding in NY, not mine. So about 10:30, you hear a plane that came in from LA, going around and around, and they announce that the plane isn’t going to land because of wether conditions.  I called up Dr. Reich, and he said, what’s the matter? I said it’s raining hard and I told him they’ve never had an occasion where a plane could not land. He said, my god, I did more than I thought I did. He said “When’s your next plane,”  I said “5 o’clock”.  He said,  “okay, go to town and go to a movie.” When I came out, the sun was shining and we took off.  He came back and he showed us the statistics, it rained more that winter than the total of the previous 15 winters. They all knew about it, and said these phenomena happen all the time.

Question from audience: Did they write about it?

Dr. Sobey: They  wrote about it but they said that it was just a coincidence, most of the newspaper articles mentioned that Reich was doing this work but said it was a crack pot claim.

He was also very much interested in UFO’s, he called it EA’s, and energy.  He’s never talked about them as well.  At times he would say, maybe there are people from other planets or other galaxies, or what not,  but all he knew were that there were these lights were  their movements didn’t conform with the stars. He took many many pictures.

Anyhow, he also was able to correlate the appearance of, these, he called them lights and they seemed to have a bluish thrust every so ofter. And when they appeared,  there would be a lot of haze the next day.  And he said “please don’t go back and tell the people in NY, then they’ll really think I’m crazy.”  He said, “I have a right to speculate.”

Each time Dr. Reich went into something new, you would think he’s gone off the deep end now, so that was that, and then he couldn’t go any further because he got in trouble with the government and went to jail.

I thought this was sad. The last time I met Dr. Reich was two weeks before he went to jail and he was living in Washington and he saw each one, the ones who really trained with him individually.  He said to me, “I probably wont see you again… I don’t see how I’ll come out of jail alive”. So I said, “okay, looking back what would you do differently?”  He said I wouldn’t have published as much as I did, I didn’t realize it was too early.and the structured people could not take my work. and he said it was only on the insistence of TP Wolfe, he was his translator, excellent therapist. The fact that he and Dunbar wrote the first definitive book on psychosomatic medicine. He kept pushing Reich, pushing Reich. He said I wouldn’t publish any more and as we know in his will, there is maybe about 1000  manuscripts which weren’t published. He said,  don’t want this to be published for at least 50 years after my death.  He also told me at that time … If he had the ability and the power, he would take all the books and therapists, and put us all into limbo and wait till our generation is out, and then the new generations  40 or 50 years ago, would be able to deal with it better.  I think he’s wrong, certainly from the sexual standpoint, society has advanced tremendously, when you consider 52, 55,   you couldn’t mention the word  masturbation in therapy, now of course we’re way past that, and he predicted that in the progress that was brought on by the sexual revolution  there would be a lot of chaos  which we are seeing now.  But if we all survived that chaos, the middle layer, stuff that’s coming out since the top layer is removed,  many innocent people would go down and those who survived would be the better off.  At that time the atomic bomb specter was very much in evidence, he said unless we blow ourselves off the face of the earth.

And well this is a personal thing, when I went to Dr. Reich I was a real radical, in fact I was a member of the communist party and of course in Europe he had a lot of  contact with the communist party.  He went to Russia for about a year to study the whole thing, when he became very disillusioned, he was bout 26 or 27. I was the only one that had that sort of background.  So we talked about it, I guess he had to get it in, the last thing he said to me, He said “You know, Dr. Sobey, there is such a thing as a good communist, but there aren’t any around now, they’re all fascists, and then he said “I’m still a Marxist.”  Now I kept it quiet for many years, and it got to the other group, Baker and his group and he said “That’s absolutely ridiculous that Dr. Reich said that, you see his latest writings.”  Well, they didn’t understand what Dr. Reich was writing about. So that was his last statement to me.

Questions:  You alluded to Bakers group and their departure from Reich?

Answer: No they didn’t depart from Reich.  They left the doctors, the orgonomists, he left the orgonomist. It was nothing philosophical.

Question: On the tape, Dr. Reich says that cancer is a prenatally acquired disease.  I just want to know apart from exterior things like smoking or working in the coal mines?

Answer: No, not apart from that at all.  He never proved it, but again, he said, If the child is in the uterus and if the uterus is armored which could have been brought on by the smoking and everything else, and sexual impotency, the uterus would be, and remember the first statement I made, was Dr. Reich said the only thing I discovered is the orgonotic pulsation.  Now if the uterus is, if that’s the energy, and it’s pulsating like this, pulsating like that, it’s going to affect the fetus.

Questions: But is the implication that if you make it out of the fetus intact, healthy, that you’re not likely to succumb to emotional disease?

Answer: Yes, even in classical cancer they talk about genetic predisposition, but they said that the nurturing could change it, so one doesn’t contradict the other.

Question: Just given today, the prevalence of medication for patients of psychology, do you think that Reich’s work would be well received today, I mean it just seems like the pharmaceutical industry is so strong?

Answer: Psychiatry and psychotherapy had been going down, I mean even the traditionals said, we’re not getting anywhere with this.  Came out originally with the tranquilizers, and Dr. Reich said, “look at, that’s going to predominate now for a good long while, because the number of chemical combinations that can be made, tranquilizers and narcotics, is countless, so as soon as one had its day, then another one is developed.  I can’t keep up with them.  So that’s going to last for  along time.  That’s what Dr. Reich said, if he had the power he would put everything of his work into limbo until the next 3 or 4 generations.

There’s one psychiatrist, he was in training and everything.  He did orgone therapy for a while, and his family and wife. He had a big need for money. I see him every so often. I play tennis with him.  In fact he’s editor of one of the journals of psychopharmacology, and he said, “come on, start writing some articles, you make  a lot of money”, and I said no. Last summer I saw him, he said, “I’m back into electric shock therapy, you can’t believe the money I’m making.”  So you know.

Question:  One more question about the blood. When the energy is so sapped that the cell starts to degenerate and at the point that it becomes pathological is there any identification of another energy or is it just another function of orgone energy that allows it to become cancer?

Answer: Well part of it the energy level is lowered  which causes the cell to reorganize at a lower lever, and part of it turns into DOR.  I mean, actually armor is nothing but sequestered DOR,  and as a results, I mean that’s a good function in the beginning because it’s sequestered DOR and it doesn’t affect he body, but then as the DOR is increased in the body, the armor can’t absorb it any more, then it floods the body, and becomes free floating anxiety, and organs break down.

Question: But normally it would  just be expelled?

Answer: Yes, DOR, if the body is free, the reflex is there, is expelled, well actually it’s discharged through the orgasm really.  That’s one of the functions of the orgasm, but  there could be complete impotency and if you’re not discharging the excess DOR through the genital embrace, the body remains flooded and armoring increases.

Question:  You said that orgone energy is energy before mass. I’m sure there are a lot of differences between different energies, can you elaborate on that.

Answer: Well orgone energy has it’s own type of physics, and mechanical energy has it’s own physical laws.   Orgone energy which is the basis of the cloud buster, energy goes from a low to high whereas in mechanical physics energy goes from a high to low. Electricity goes from high to low, a waterfall goes from high to low.  That’s one of the main differences between the two energies. Also, orgone energy is not destructive,  whereas, when matter is destroyed, broken up, like in the atomic reactor, the energy which is released is destructive.

Question?   when you look at the lumination from the sun, lightbulb or fluorescent tube, you get entirely different patters.  The florescent tube is really sharp and harsh, and the light bulb is fairly benign and sunlight is a little dancier.  I think that you can see some distinction in movement in the mechanical energy charge which is what the fluorescent light does.  Well the flourescent light, there’s a very harsh line of  movement in the air, short little dashes and stabs, and the orgone movement, you can see, not an undulation from the sun.  The sunlight, you get a softer light, a softer affect in the air.

Answer:  But Dr.Reich said, lumination, when we look at a lightbulb, or flashlight into the sky, he said it was sending off mechanical energy and what you’re seeing  is the lumintaion of the orgone energy in the atmosphere.

Question: I understand but I think what a high electrical charge dose, it insights the orgone energy, it gives a much higher charge, and it changes the visible form.

Answer: I’ll do what Dr. Reich would say, Mr. Teeger, that’s a good idea, why don’t you do some more research on that and give us a report. In the beginning in those seminars we would say, Dr.Reich, we saw this, we observed that, thinking, here Dr. Reich [would be impressed] but it was instead more work for you. He would say, why don’t you do some more research and  write a paper.   After a while, no one would say anything.

Question:  I wonder about the scientific evidence in the term of what value it actually has, there seems, Dr. Reich and the orgonomist have come up with incredible resistance in society and the world.   No matter what he did, he had all the writings and he had everything out there had all that it seems to have fallen on deaf ears in many respects.  My question is what value is there in research, is that where the affect on the world is going to happen, or is it going to happen in some other way?

Answer: Well if you listen to me,  Dr. Reich said, if he had the ability he would put everything into limbo. In fact there are a thousand pages[manuscripts] in unpublished work which he felt that the character armoring of the world at the present time at that time or for a long time will not be able to deal with it. There are a lot of people, in Europe today and, in South America, you would be surprised, the hundreds of thousands of people are interested in orgonomy now.  Reichian institute in Italy, Berlin, France are very big, the books have been published in Finish of all places and even in Japan. Maybe you have a good explanation of why people are ignoring or resisting it.

Question: My wondering is  weather greater affect is going to happen more indirectly, not necessarily through research based on orgonomy, but through advances in other fields that have an affect.

Answer: Well, we do know that  many of the things that Dr. Reich discovered and developed has been accepted by many areas of science.  Like touching the patient, it was unheard of when I started, now it’s nothing. When Dr. Reich talked about the virus aspect of Cancer, and even emotionally, remember, back then they though what do[emotions] have to do with cancer, now you hear it all the time, stress reduction, bio-feedback.

Dr.Harry Lewis: In fact, someone told me that Dr. Reich said, that what’s going to happen to my work is that it’s going to be picked apart and piece by piece people will take bits of it and use it to make movements on it and build treatments on it. Dr. Reich said, he had no choice, you do the science because you do it, not because people are going to accept it or see you as the great discoverer. There was the famous quote by Dr.Reich that at 50 years they are going to come to my grave with bouquets and say, you were right and forgive us.

Dr.Sobey: No,No, Then I am suppose to to say “thank you”!

You’ve asked me and a lot of patients have asked me if I think things are worse than ever, and I say no.  With the top layer coming off, if the top layer would come off, the super ego, high morality, and the middle layer come to the surface, pornography would develop. which it has, and a lot of healthy sexual attitudes and behaviors develop too. The adolescents, in NY city, 45% of the births are adolescent single mothers, but  nature created the woman and the male to procreate at the time she menstruates. Now society, well, number one hasn’t affirmed sexuality yet, they say it happens and there’s nothing we can do about it [but] it’s an improvement from 45 years ago, things are getting better.  People say the atomic bomb! the atomic bomb! but I think the atomic bomb was a good thing because it’s the first time in history of the world when we haven’t had a major world war, it’s been a long time.  I remember WWI ended in 1918 and then in 1939 we had another one.

So you know, It goes back and forth, every action there’s a reaction.  But the next action is a little further ahead, a little further ahead.  Expansion and contraction, that’s the pulsation.

Question: so even if there is a break up of all of Reich’s little ideas …

Answer: It’s not important, some guy maybe even in the Congo is working in his barn working on Dr. Reich’s [theories], or even independent of Dr. Reich.

Talking about the adolescents, the whole economic structure should be set up so that they be taken care of and not be looked upon in a negative way.  It’ll come to that.

Dr.Harry Lewis:   That’s the history of science anyway and scientific discovery.  The guy in the 30’s that came up with the idea that the continents were moving and they

laughed at him and said he was a crackpot.  Then all of a sudden someone in the

1960’s begins to realize that not only was he right but they can begin to

demonstrate the efficacy.  Someone else who was the leading scientist of his

time  who had everything to say becomes just a clown in terms of history, so you

know you just do the work.

This post was written by:

- who has written 39 posts on The Journal of Psychiatric Orgone Therapy.


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